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Vlachs  in the the Great Plains, Pannonia and Transylvania, before the Magyars

 

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Pannonia

text and map at:http://www.unrv.com/provinces/pannonia-map.php

Dacians in Pannonian Plaines

In ancient geography, especially in Roman sources, Dacia was the land in East-Central Europe inhabited by the Dacians. Ancient Greeks called the same people "Getae". This region was bounded approximately by the Danube (then known as Istros) or sometimes by the Balkan Mountains (then known as Hemus) to the south (Dobruja, a region south of the Danube, was a core area where the Getae lived and interacted with the Ancient Greeks), Black Sea (then known as Pontus Euxinus) and Dniester (then known as Tyras) to the east (but several Dacian settlements are recorded in part of area between Dniester and Southern Bug), and Tisza (then known as Tisia) to the west (but at times included areas between Tisza and middle Danube). It thus corresponds to modern countries of Romania and Moldova, as well as smaller parts of Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary, and Ukraine....Towards the west Dacia may originally have extended as far as the Danube, where it runs from north to south at Waitzen (Vác). In the 1st century B.C., at the time of the first Dacian King Burebista, Julius Caesar in his De Bello Gallico (book 6) speaks of the Hercynian forest extending along the Danube to the territory of the Dacians. Text at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daci

Roman Pannonia

Panonia was bordered along the Danube to the east and north, with Noricum and Northern Italia to the west, and with Dalmatia and Moesia to the south. Its original inhabitants (Pannonii, sometimes called Paeonii by the Greeks) were an Illyrian tribe. From the 4th century BCE it was invaded by various Celtic tribes, the largest of whom were the Carni, Scordisci and Taurisci.
In the early first century BCE, Roman penetration into Raetia, Noricum and Dalmatia moved towards the Danube and Pannonia. The Celtic Scordiscis and Dardanians posed an obstacle to this advance. A hard fought war with the Dardanians, lasting 3 years, enabled Gaiuss Scribonius Curio to be the first Roman general along with his Legion to see the Danube in 73 BC.
Little else is heard of Pannonia until 35 BC, when its inhabitants took up arms in support of the Dalmatians who were at war with Rome. This led to an invasion by Augustus, who conquered and occupied Siscia (Sissek). The country was not, however, definitely subdued until 9 BC when it was incorporated with Illyria, the frontier of which was extended as far as the Danube.
In 7 AD the Pannonians, with the Dalmatians and other Illyrian tribes, revolted, but were eventually overcome by Tiberius and Germanicus, after a hard-fought campaign which lasted for two years. In 10 AD Pannonia was organized as a separate province. The proximity of dangerous barbarian tribes (Quadi, Marcomanni) across the Danube necessitated the presence of a large number of Legions and Auxiliaries and numerous limes (fortifications) were built on Roman side of the river.
Some time between the years 102 and 107 AD, which marked the termination of Emperor Trajan's Dacian wars, Trajan divided Pannonia into 2 provinces, superior in the west and inferior in the east. The whole country was sometimes called the Pannonias (Pannoniae). Pannonia superior was under the consular legate, who had formerly administered the single province, and had three legions under his control: Pannonia inferior at first under a praetorian legate with a single legion as garrison.
After Marcus Aurelius it was governed under a consular legate, still with only one legion. The frontier on the Danube was protected by the establishment of the two colonies, Aelia Mursia (Esse) and Aelia Aquincum by Hadrian. In fact, Hadrian was the first governor of Pannonia Inferior and later as emperor, the region became one of the favorite destinations in his many travels.
Like many other Roman provinces Hadrian instituted a great many building projects in the region, the Danube fortifications, roads, temples, aqueducts, theatres, etc. that helped to Romanize the inhabitants. Vindobona, modern day Vienna, a former military camp, also began to grow in importance during this time period.
The Marcommanic Wars of Marcus Aurelius showed the great importance of Danubian frontier and Pannonia often became the permanent headquarters of Roman Emperors or their appointed deputies during the 2nd and 3rd Centuries. Legio I & Legio II Adiutrix, Legio X & Legio XIV Gemina were mainly stationed in Pannonia.

The great migrations and invasions of Goths and Huns of the 4th century led directly to increased Germanic pressure on the region. Displaced tribes sought refuge within the Empire's borders, but suitable agreements were never really reached. By 378 AD, at the Battle of Adrianople in neighboring Thracia, the Goths crushed the army of Valens, effectively destroying Roman control of the Balkan province.
In the middle of the 5th century Pannonia was ceded to the Huns by Theodosius II, and after the death of Attila successively passed into the hands of the Ostrogoths, Lombards, Avars (560's - c.800), Slavs (c.800 - 900) and Hungarians (since 900/901). The ancient name Pannonia is retained in the modern term Pannonian plain. Today, Pannonia is largely identical with what is called "Transdanubia" (in Hungary).


Decline and Fall of the Empire 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonia_Prima

 

Emperor Gratian (367-383) began settling Huns as foederati in Pannonia.[8] Roman money had ceased circulating in all Pannonia north of the Drave (including Pannonia Prima) by 375, indicating that little Roman influence remained in the area, beside the romanized population, the vlachs. The foederati and Visigothic and Hunnic barbarians caused trouble, and the situation in Pannonia was described by Claudian as “a continual siege” in 399. Pannonia Prima held out under Generidus, but was eventually assimilated into the Huns’ territory by 427. Rome would never regain control of this area.[9]

Terra sigillata im Barbaricum zwischen Pannonien und Dazien
by Dénes Gabler
Published in 1986, Akadémiai Kiadó (Budapest)

Pannonian Romance

Some decades before Christ, the Roman Empire invaded the western part of the Carpathian Basin up to the River Danube. The area, which the Romans called Pannonia, constituted an important province of the empire for 450 years.

The Romans had a great impact on the developement of the settlements west of the Danube which they conquered in the 1st century and transformed into a Roman province called Pannonia (the area is called Transdanubia today).http://www.hungary-tourist-guide.com/history-of-hungary.html

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Text and pictures at:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Romance

Pannonian Romance
Spoken inPannonia
Language extinctionEarly Middle Ages
Language familyIndo-European
Language codes
ISO 639-1None
ISO 639-2 
ISO 639-3

Pannonian Romance was the neolatin language that was developed in Pannonia after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. It seems to have lasted until the X century. The Pannonian Romance development experienced a similarity with the British Romance's one, lasting only a few centuries.

History

In the north, a Roman population probably still lived in the former province of Pannonia at least in all the 6th century and the question whether the "dialect" spoken there belonged to East Latin or to the Occidental dialects has been discussed by scholars without a definite conclusion [1]

The romanized population of Pannonia (that the historian Theodore Mommsen calculated in about 200,000 inhabitants around the fourth century) survived the Barbarian invasions (Huns, Goths, Avars, etc…) although reduced to few thousands in the sixth century, mainly in villages fortified like Keszthely and Fenékpuszta.

There were other places in Pannonia where local population continued speaking the Latin vulgarized after the fifth century: Pécs, Sopron, Szombathely, Dunaújváros. In these localities have been many Christian relics, with inscriptions in Latin.

Image of Roman Pannonia girl (VI century), wearing ornaments of the "Keszthely Culture"

But it was in the western end of the Pelso lake (now called lake Balaton) where was formed a peculiar society of craftsmen, called the Keszthely culture, of which we have left more than 6,000 artisan tombs and many products (including in gold).

Neolatin languages disappeared like in Pannonia -assimilated by German ans slavic invasions- in borders areas of the Roman limes near the Danube river, like Raetia (actual Baviera and Switzerland) and Noricum (actual Austria)[2], but in the area of lake Balaton survived because the Avars needed a population of skilled artisans and crafstmen for their own needs.

After the Avars were defeated by Charlemagne and disappeared at the beginning of the IX century, the romanized craftsmen of the "Keszthely culture" were no more needed and so quickly were assimilated: their language, the Pannonian Romance, soon disappeared with them in the X century.[3]

Geography

The Pannonian Romance was spoken around the Balaton lake in western Hungary, mainly in the fortified villages of Keszthely and Fenékpuszta.

Other places, where were found romanizeds tombs of Pannonians in the sixth century, were: Pécs (the Roman Sopianae), Sopron (Scarbantia), Szombathely (Savaria), Tokod and Dunaújváros.

The area around the Balaton lake has an almost Mediterranean climate, similar to the one of the subalpine lakes in the north of Italy.

According to Alexandru Magdearu this special mild climate is one of the reasons of why the Pannonians remained in Keszthely and they did not flee - during the Barbarian invasions - towards the relatively near coasts of the Adriatic Sea.

Language

Remains of a Christian church of the V century in Sopianae (Pecz), Pannonia (Hungary)

The Pannonian Romance is considered an Indo-European language, pertaining to the Centum group, with celtic roots and related to the old Illyrian. According to the linguist Roxana Curc, the main source of intelligence on this extinct language is the many toponims in the area of the Balaton lake and some antroponims, hidronims and etonims that come from the Culture of Keszthely.

In addition to this, the same Keszthely name (pronounced in Hungarian “Kestei”) is similar to the istrian-venecian “castei”, that means “castle”, and is probably an original word of the Pannonian Romance language, according to the Hungarian linguist Julius Pokornyin (in Indogermanisches Etymologisches Worterbuch). This Hungarian linguist also writes that the word “Pannonia” is originated from the illiric word “pen” (marsh) and this demonstrates that the romanized language of the Pannonians was related to the Illyrian, another died Balkan language.

The Pannonian Romance language probably contributed to the creation of the 300 basic words of the “Latin substratum” of the Balkan Romance languages, according to Romanian linguist Alexandru Rossetti (in his Istoria limbii române).

Some scholars argue that the Pannonian Romance lacks clear evidences of existence, because no writings of this language has been found until now. But, according to Sós Árthur in his book Cemeteries of the Early Middle Ages (6 th-9 th c.) at Pókaszepetkin, in some of the 6000 tombs of the Keszthely culture there are words in vernacular Latin that seems related to the Pannonian Romance language.

Notes

  1. ^ André du Nay. The Origins of the Rumanians.The early history of the Rumanian language
  2. ^ Romance disappearance in "Romania submersa"
  3. ^ Sós, Árthur/Salamon Á. Cemeteries of the Early Middle Ages (6 th-9 th c.) at Pókaszepetk

Bibliography

  • Du Nay, Andre. The Origins of the Rumanians—The early history of the Rumanian language. Matthias Corvinus Publishing. Toronto,1996
  • Magdearu, Alexandru. Românii în opera Notarului Anonym. Centrul de Studii Transilvane, Bibliotheca Rerum Transsylvaniae, XXVII. Cluj-Napoca 2001.
  • Mommsen, Theodore. The Provinces of the Roman empire. Barnes & Noble Books. New York 2003
  • Remondon, Roger. La crise de l’Empire romain. Collection Nouvelle Clio – l’histoire et ses problèmes. Paris 1970
  • Rosetti, Alexandru. "History of the Romanian language" (Istoria limbii române), 2 vols., Bucharest, 1965-1969.
  • Sós, Árthur/Salamon Á. Cemeteries of the Early Middle Ages (6 th-9 th c.) at Pókaszepetk. Ed by. B. M. Szőke. Budapest 1995.
  • Szemerény, Oswald. Studies in the Kinship Terminology of the Indo-European Languages. Leiden 1977
  • Tagliavini, Carlo. Le origini delle lingue neolatine. Patron Ed. Bologna 1982

Keszthely culture

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Text and pictures at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keszthely_culture

 

The Keszthely culture was created ca. 500 - 700 by the Romanized residents of Pannonia who lived near the fortified village of Castellum (now Keszthely), near the lake Balaton in now western Hungary.

This culture flourished under the Avars domination of Pannonia, as the artisan center of artifacts (mainly of gold) in the area.

History

Pannonia, a province of the Western Roman empire, was devastated by the barbarian invasions (Huns, Gepidae, Avars, etc.). Only a few thousands romanized pannonians survived the onslaughts, mainly around the lake Pelso (now lake Balaton) in small fortified villages like Keszthely.

 
Roman Pannonia and surrounding areas

The Romanic population from Pannonia created the Keszthely culture that evolved mainly during the 6th-7th centuries. Its artefacts were made in the workshops of Roman origin located mainly in the fortified settlements of Keszthely-Fenékpuszta and Sopianae (actual Pécs). The Romanic craftsmen worked for their masters (Gepidae and Avars).

Under the Avars the roman castle of Fenékpuszta near Keszthely and the surroundings were not occupied so the original romanized inhabitants lived on undisturbed. They paid food and artisan goods for peace from the Avars. After 568 new Christian romanized pannonians arrived here, probably from the destroyed Aquincum (actual Budapest). The Keszthely-Fenékpuszta fortress became the centre of a 30 km diameter area, where the people buried their dead adorned with jewellery and clothing of Byzantine origin. They rebuilt the fortress Basilica, where the principals of the community were buried, while their relatives found their final resting places next to the nearby "horreum" (granary).

Aerial photography: Gorsium - Herculia (Tác, Hungary), an urban center of the Keszthely culture

In 626 the Avars were seriously defeated under Constantinople, which was followed by a civil war. The leaders of the Keszthely-Fenékpuszta community had supported those who were later defeated. That was why the Avars besieged and then destroyed the fortress of Fenékpuszta. They made the rest of the romanized population move into the territory of the town centre. The Christian romanized population got under military suppression. The cemeteries in the 7th and the 8th centuries entombed both Avars and Christians, but they were buried separately. The different religions did not allow them to mix even after death. The Christian romanized populations, who spoke their own omance pannonian language, cut from the outer world created a unique, characteristic material culture, which we know from the findings of the cemeteries near Keszthely. These findings got called the Keszthely culture. At that time, Keszthely was the center of the pannonian region because the Balaton's area was crossed by roads connecting the Danube and the Mediterranean.

 At the end of the 8th century under the reign of Charlemagne, the Francs overthrew the Avar Empire and they invaded the pannonian plains. The Christian romanized populations living around Keszthely quickly took over the western Christian customs, which among others meant that they buried their dead without grove furniture so now it is impossible to identify them. The Fenékpuszta fortress was repaired again in the 9th century. Its walls accommodated and gave shelter to the descendants of the Avars and the southern Slavic people who had migrated in at the beginning of the century. Their cemeteries kept quite a lot of the pagan customs. The 10th century was the darkest period of Keszthely's history. Neither traces of the survival of the earlier romanized pannonian population nor of the conquering Hungarians are known to us.

Handicrafts

By the end of the 6th century we find the romanized population mainly in the row cemeteries that were newly laid out in the area of the late-roman fortresses of Keszthely (Castellum) and of Pécs (Sopianae) (southwestern Hungary). During the Avars, there also will have been romanized and Byzantine people arriving from the Balkans, and they helped develop a community of rich artisans. These probably Christian communities preserved or renewed their artistic relations with the romanised population of the Mediterranean.

Romance language groups in the Balkan peninsula. In blue the extinct Romance Pannonian language, centered around the "Keszthely culture"

The characteristic costume of their women includes earrings with basket-shaped pendants, disc brooches with early Christian motifs, and dress-pins. The early Christian symbols include crosses, bird-shaped brooches and pins decorated with bird figures (one bird-shaped brooch bears an incised cross). The romanized population of Pannonia in general became ‘Avarized’, and only in the close vicinity of Keszthely can their ‘island’ of Late-Antique culture be traced, where their traditional costume was worn until the beginning of the 9th century.

Language

The name of the settlement Keszthely may mean a continuity, which can be traced back to the Latin "castellum" (castle).

The linguists Magdearu Alexandru (in Românii în opera Notarului Anonym) and Julius Pokornyin (in Indogermanisches Etymologisches Worterbuch) write that the word "kestei" (as is pronuncied in Hungarian Keszthely) is similar to the Venetian/Istrian word "caestei", meaning castle, and it is one of the few surviving words from the extinct Romance Pannonian language.

This extinct language of the Romanized Pannonians has given many toponyms to the area around the Lake Balaton.

References

  • Magdearu, Alexandru. Românii în opera Notarului Anonym. Centrul de Studii Transilvane, Bibliotheca Rerum Transsylvaniae, XXVII. Cluj-Napoca 2001.
  • Mommsen, Theodore. The Provinces of the Roman empire. Barnes & Noble Books. New York 2003
  • Remondon, Roger. La crise de l’Empire romain. Collection Nouvelle Clio – l’histoire et ses problèmes. Paris 1970
  • Szemerény, Oswald. Studies in the Kinship Terminology of the Indo-European Languages. Leiden 1977
  • Tagliavini, Carlo. Le origini delle lingue neolatine. Patron Ed. Bologna 1982

See also

The Carpathian Basin at the time of the Magyar invasion - polities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_prehistory

 

At the time of the Magyar invasion, the Carpathian Basin was divided among several powers, because following the collapse of the Avar Empire around 800, the neighboring powers had occupied only parts of its territory.[12][16]

  • The region of Transdanubia (Pannonia) and the western parts of Slavonia belonged to East Francia.[12][16] The Vlach-Slavic population of the province was governed by dukes appointed by the king of East Francia with a seat in Blatnograd (today Zalavár in Hungary).[1][16]
  • The territories north of the river Danube belonged to Moravia, but the expansion of the Moravian territories on the eastern part of the Carpathian Basin is still under debate.[1][16]
  • Vlach Transylvania and some regions east of the river Danube were occupied by the Bulgarians around 803.[4][16][27]

Sapaturi Archeologice de la Juncu- Transylvania

După realizarea documentarului de către o companie bucureşteană, filmarea va fi trimisă postului National Geographic, care a anunţat că îl va difuza dacă va respecta criteriile severe ale postului.

O fermă romană formată din două sate şi un cimitir creştin din evul mediu timpuriu, descoperite la Jucu pe terenul viitoarei fabrici Nokia, reprezintă subiectul unui documentar filmat ieri.

Zeci de morminte suprapuse, fundaţia unei case romane de chirpici sau 17 monede de bronz sunt vestigiile preţioase descoperite de arheologii clujeni de la Universitatea Babeş-Bolyai, conduşi de arheologul Alexandru Diaconescu.

Acestea au fost filmate ieri de o echipă a casei de producţie MSV Film, din Bucureşti, companie care a turnat lungmetrajele româneşti “Ticăloşii” şi “Magnatul”. Dacă filmul bucureştenilor va trece de criteriile dure ale prestigiosului canal TV National Geographic, atunci acesta va difuza gratuit imaginile despre descoperirile arheologice de la Jucu. Miza difuzării este recunoaşterea internaţională a descoperirii de către arheologii români a modalităţii de îmbinare în epoca romană târzie a ţiglelor de la casele romane.

“Concurăm cu arheologii britanici şi germani şi sper să îi devansăm. Toate ţiglele găsite aici, majoritatea intacte, vor fi duse la muzeul din Gherla şi va fi analizată metoda îmbinării”, a spus Diaconescu.

Fermă romană de cai

“Cronicarul Anonimus a avut dreptate perfectă. Ceea ce el a scris s-a adeverit perfect. Aici, în Lunca Someşului, unde acum locului i se zice Râtul Porcilor, a fost una din cele mai mari ferme romane de cai, care deservea castrul de la Gherla - Ala Secunda Panonicum - aparţinând perioadei împăratului Hadrianus.

La Gherla au activat catafractanii, cavalerii cu armură grea, precursorii cavalerilor medievali”, spun arheologii clujeni. La castrul din Gherla a fost avansat, din cercetaş în ofiţer, Tiberiu Claudius Maximum, cel care l-a capturat pe Decebal.

Caută o biserică

Arheologii clujeni au găsit ieri, exact în timpul unei scurte şedinţe de filmări, monede de bronz, unele extrem de şterse, din timpul împăraţilor Serenus Alexandru şi Gordian al III-lea, împăraţi soldaţi, care proveneau din armată. De asemenea, cimitirul descoperit la Jucu conţine morminte extrem de interesante, suprapuse.

“După 1.000 de ani de la prăbuşirea celor două sate a fost construit acest cimitir. Mai săpăm, credem că vom găsi o biserică”, a mai spus Alexandru Diaconescu. Săpăturile de la Jucu vor mai continua maximum două sâptămâni. Ele sunt efectuate de către două echipe de arheologi voluntari. După finalizarea lor, se va trece la analizele de laborator.
Tiberiu FĂRCAŞ
http://www.ziuadecj.ro/action/article?ID=2786


Sunteti constient de faptul ca vor exista destule voci care vor critica ceea ce sustineti?
Din pacate, stam foarte prost cu dovezile arheologice din aceasta perioada. Este foarte greu sa datezi o descoperire din aceasta perioada. Noi am avut noroc cu cerceii stelati, altfel ne era greu sa spunem ca descoperirea facuta este din secolul VIII.
http://www.expres.ro/article.php?artid=323402

Arheologii clujeni au descoperit pe terenul viitoarei unitãti de telefoane mobile de la Jucu relicve din perioada Imperiului Roman, dar si morminte crestine din epoca medievalã timpurie (sec. VIII, IX, X).
http://www.ziuadecj.ro/action/article?ID=2786
(http://www.monitorulcj.ro/files/cms/m_cj/archive/2007/07/09/05b.jpg)

http://www.presaonline.com/_img/items/bsgW4Xb.jpg

 

O noua piesa la dosarul intaietatii in Ardeal

19 septembrie 2007Arheologul Alexandru Diaconescu: descoperirea de la Jucu dovedeste prezenta romanilor in Transilvania inainte de sosirea maghiarilor.

Lucrarile arheologice care au loc pe terenul viitoarei fabrici Nokia din comuna Jucu, de langa Cluj, au scos la lumina un cimitir crestin, datat de istorici ca fiind din secolele Vlll-X.
Potrivit sefului de santier, arheologul Alexandru Diaconescu, aici au fost ingropati romani si slavi. Daca ipoteza se va confirma, aceasta este de natura sa probeze faptul ca, inaintea sosirii maghiarilor in Transilvania, aici a existat o populatie de etnie romana.

In cimitirul crestin de la Jucu, care se suprapune peste o herghelie militara romana, au fost descoperite pana acum 83 de schelete care fusesera ingropate cu capul spre apus.
Amanuntul e suficient de puternic pentru conf. dr. Alexandru Diaconescu, seful santierului, care a tras concluzia: avem de-a face cu un cimitir crestin.

Alexandru Diaconescu este conferentiar univeristar la Catedra de istorie antica si arheologie a Facultatii de Istorie din cadrul Universitatii "Babes Bolyai".
A condus mai multe santiere de cercetare arheologica in zonele fostelor orase romane Sarmizegetusa Ulpia Traiana, Apullum si Napoca.
A pregatit un santier arheologic la Palmira in Siria, pentru a gasi vestigiile unui oras construit de Imparatul Traian. A fost bursier la facultatile de istorie din Köln, Berlin si Londra.

EVZ: Ati descoperit un cimitir crestin despre care credeti ca este datat din secolele VII-X, iar cei ingropati acolo au fost romani si slavi. E corect?
Alexandru Diaconescu: Am dat peste un cimitir care se afla la 200 de metri de o asezare datata din aceeasi perioada, secolele VII-IX, nu numai datorita ceramicii, ci si datorita descoperirii unor cercei stelati care nu poti datati dincolo de secolul VIII.

Judecand dupa ceramica, locuintele sunt semiingropate, semibordeie specifice unei populatii de campie. Cimitirul cuprinde in majoritate zdrobitoare morminte de inhumatie, orientate est-vest, ceea ce este tipic pentru ritul crestin. Opinia mea este ca e vorba despre o comunitate romano-slava.

Ce elemente conduc la aceasta concluzie?
Tipul de locuinte, semibordeie, sunt specifice, cu vetre pietrar, niste camine, sunt specifice acestei lumi. Slavii incep sa apara in secolul VII si ii putem identifica drept slavi. Mai tarziu, acest lucru este imposibil.
Si de aici se poate trage concluzia ca exista o populatie romaneasca in zona Jucu?
Dupa dovezile descoperite si prezenta ritului crestin de inmormantare, se poate face dovada ca aceasta asezare era una preponderent crestina. Asta ne duce cu gandul la un contact al populatiei slave cu cea romaneasca, despre care stim ca era deja crestinata in secolele VIII-X.

Cum ati facut datarea?
Ca elemente sigure avem niste podoabe feminine, asa-numitele inele de tampla, cu capete in forma de S, cu care erau prinse cositele femeilor. Aceste podoabe sunt datate secolul X. La marginea cimitirului am gasit si cateva morminte de incineratie in urna, iar ele sunt mor minte pagane.

Slavii cand au fost crestinati?

Dupa secolul X slavii se crestineaza. La cimitirul de la Jucu nu exista elemente sudice, de origine bulgara, prin urmare nu avem niciun motiv sa credem ca este vorba despre aceiasi slavi care, dupa secolul X, s-au crestinat. Din moment ce ei se crestineaza mai repede de secolul X, inseamna ca erau romani. Parerea mea este ca avem de-a face cu o populatie mixta romano-slava.
Sunteti constient de faptul ca vor exista destule voci care vor critica ceea ce sustineti?
Din pacate, stam foarte prost cu dovezile arheologice din aceasta perioada. Este foarte greu sa datezi o descoperire din aceasta perioada. Noi am avut noroc cu cerceii stelati, altfel ne era greu sa spunem ca descoperirea facuta este din secolul VIII.

DOVADA

"Aceasta descoperire umple un gol"

Descoperirea cimitirului este prima proba concreta ca in cronica lui Anonymus* s-a spus adevarul?
Aceasta descoperire umple un gol. Anonymus a fost un scriitor medieval si un mare patriot maghiar. Ideea cronicii lui era sa arate cu cata vitejie au cucerit ungurii tara unde locuiesc.

Despre Transilvania este mai nebulos si spune ca era locuita de primitivi, vlahi si slavi, condusi de Gelu. Unii istorici il contesta. Spun ca scrierile nu sunt verificabile pentru ca s-ar fi luat dupa legende.

Concluzia dumneavoastra?
Importanta stiintifica a acestei descoperiri este foarte mare. Incercam sa aflam cum traiau acesti oameni si sa vedem daca exista elemente de organizare. Avem ocazia sa vedem evolutia acestei comunitati si poate avem surpriza sa aflam ca este vorba despre localitatea Jucu de azi.

Sapatura asta arheologica incepe sa aduca lumina asupra acestei epoci. A felului cum s-a produs simbioza intre romani si slavi. Nu avem foarte multe dovezi despre romani in aceasta zona pentru ca asezarile lor erau risipite in zona inalta, fiecare cu propria gospodarie, pe care nu ii puteai aduna si disciplina.

*Cronica lui Anonymus mentioneaza faptul ca, la sosirea maghiarilor in Transilvania, acestia au gasit aici o populatie autohtona, romano-slava, aflata sub comanda voievodului Gelu.

Vekov Karoly

"Un vestigiu paleo crestin nu inseamna etnicitate"

Vekov Karoly, istoric si fost parlamentar UDMR, spune ca scrierile lui Anonymus reprezinta un izvor istoric care trebuie folosit cu foarte mare atentie.

"Cu siguranta au existat populatii autohtone in Transilvania in momentul descalecarii. Aici incep dezbaterile, cand incepi sa identifici o populatie dupa bordeie semiingropate sau cand nu exista elemente tipice. Istoricii maghiari, evident in functie de natura descoperirilor, incearca sa le deosebeasca ca apartinand slavilor, ungurilor sau altor populatii si aici se pune problema cine intra in alte populatii. Etnicitatea nu se poate dovedi decat in cazuri speciale, cand exista obiecte tipice apartinand unui anumit grup", spune istoricul Vekov Karolu. In opinia acestuia, doar vestigiile a doua etnii pot fi identificate. "

Pot fi identificate doar vestigiile slave si mormintele descalecatorilor unguri. Eu, personal, subliniez, pentru ca nu m-am ocupat de arheologie, nu stiu care sunt elementele definitorii populatiei romanesti. Un vestigiu paleo crestin nu inseamna etnicitate in niciun fel", a spus istoricul maghiar.

Originea disputei

Totul a inceput de la o descriere romana a retragerii aureliene

Istoricul clujean Ovidiu Pecican, profesor la Universitatea "Babes Bolyai", sustine ca disputa de opinii dintre istorici despre populatia care a fost pentru prima data in Transilvania porneste de la un izvor roman, care sustine ca retragerea aureliana a fost totala, armata, administratie si populatie.

"De aici a pornit discutia pentru ca cei din Scoala Ardeleana sustineau ca nu este adevarata aceasta teorie. De acolo incoace discursul a mers pe acest tip de argumentatie ca a mai existat o populatie daco-romana in zona. Cel care s-a repezit a fost un austriac care a venit cu teoria ca vlahii au emigrat din peninsula balcanica", a spus Ovidiu Pecican. 

Ethnogenesis group (romanian only) 

 http://egg.mnir.ro/studii/stay_frame.htm

BIBLIOTECAonline; http://egg.mnir.ro/pdf/pdf_frame.htm

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